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 [BB]Raubvogel - what is it Nächstes Thema anzeigen
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\^AMG^/
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Beitrag Titel: [BB]Raubvogel - what is it
Verfasst am: 23.09.12 22:32
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I thought about BB skill i did movies and... I wanna your opinion :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PetabvitVzI
Me and Darki were just owned, rampages, I was shot down in 1/2 secs only by guns. Aimbot ? Maybe. Skill ? Maybe...
But can we call a lot higher thruster speed a skill ?
Look at ~0:59 how fast he disappeared from my screen and how far from me he was... It's just amazing skill !
Next one you can see at ~4:10-4:11 again amazing speed on thruster...
Look at this movie and remember how they ownage me and Darki. Now look at this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB0Kb7N1zPk
0:38-0:40 I still dont know that i was shot by one or by 2 guys. It is just amazing hits. Look how fast i died... I understand when i sit near base and if someone do afk kill but in fight ?
1:50-1:52 wow that speed+turn was awesome... Look at this a few times...
3:15-3:17 another unnormal fast speed. Is it really 200 speed ?
3:30-3:33 that turn... I still don't know that is it normal or not ? Please help me with decide.
10:35 another strange fast speed on thurster... To fast for me
10:39-10:41 NO COMMENT another shortwhile 'thruster burst'
11:54-11:56 Look, he use thruster and he doesn't flying with that speed like in some situations which i showed you. For me THIS is normal speed.
14:26-14:27 another for me little to fast thruster...

Look that in second movie especially after half of this film they aren't ownage me and darki that hard like before. They don't have that aim, they dont shoot mi down in 1/2 sec. Strange isn't it ?
I think we can find there a lot of strange situations but i don't want to lose all night to analyse this movies...

I want to know your experience with them. Did you had that strange situations ? Maybe you have another movies ? Post them here ! Maybe someone have answer for all my questions ? How they get that faster speed and how at start they have aim like god then not ? If someone have it post it. I just want to know that is it skill/bug/something else.
Thanks !
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.09.12 22:49
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

~Closed~ for now.


Next time:
Zitat:

Recommended approach in case of cheating

If you suspect a player is cheating and have a reasonable case it's absolutely correct to inform the admin-team.

Further course of action:

1.Collect your evidence previously (Screens, videos,...).
2.Don't open an new thread in the "Banned?"-Subboard.
3.Send your "report" to an admin via PM. The Team will check it.
4.Have patience. ²

With this new protocol we try to prevent the long flamthreads we had in the past.
In the end, the admin has the final word in each case.
When the admin-team decides that a claim is indeed cheating, your banpetition will be posted in a puplic ban-thread, so please write your report proper (we will quote it).

Please follow this protocol from now on.
The rules regarding insults or other infractions remain unchanged.

regards,
your Admin-team

² For admins it's very hard to judge cases of cheating.
There is always the possibility of a "lagabnormity" or a graphics glitch.
To call sombody a cheater is a tough accusation, so we have to be sure 100%.

http://www.freelancerserver.de/v2/topic,19346_Cheatverdachtsfaelle_suspicious_cases_of_cheating.html
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 05:04
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Moved to Admin Contact
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 14:58
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So Nosferatu did you check some of this situations ? What is your conclusion for this strange things ? Sometimes they own sometimes lame, sometimes they have strange fast turn/speed sometimes no. Sometimes they have incredible good aim sometimes not... Did you have answer for this ?
Thanks.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 15:25
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Not yet. It was 6 o'clock in the morning when i moved that thread.
I don't check videos at that time - and I'm still at work

Did you read what Armin posted and understand why it was moved and why you were not supposed to post it into the banned forum?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 16:11
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Yes i understand. Mein deutsch ist nicht gut aber ich verstehe Armin gut ^^
I wanted to do thread on forum about all movies with Raubvogel but if is it really secret ( but this is funny everybody on HC know that they are cheating [ but i understand that you cannot ban him only because some guys are talking about it ] ) i won't do another thread on public forum.

Ok so i will wait for your replay.
Best regards
Amg
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 18:06
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Video analyzing is hard.
I'll try to tell you possible explanations for the various situations and its your job to argue against me.
If we find something that we I can't argue down we'll confront [BB]Raubvogel

Video1:
0:59 He is thrusting away instead of turning - thats an unusal manuver and i think thats the reason it looks so odd - but as you see a few seconds later it was a bad one.
He started turning again while you already had him in sight - and you kill him
~4:10-4:11 He's not really fast. He is close and doing a fly by thats why it looks that fast - you regain sight of him in 4:12 and he is not far away

Video2:
0:38-0:40 At second 38 I can see a torp next to your ship - i guess its yours - at the end of second 38 it hits the enemy.
He looses his shield, a short time after you loose most of your hull. You were to close??
You loose your hull a bit after he looses his shield but I think thats normal.

1:50-1:52 That looked veryvery odd because you immidatly got shot by him after his fly by. But after trying to pause the moment directly before you die for 15 times i noticed that there are two Raubvogel Chars in the scene (one is written with i at the end the other with L).
The one who killed you is not the one you have targeted

3:15-3:17 100m distance and flying to a point above you. Again. I think it looks that odd because he is so near.

3:30-3:33 It looks like really fast. But on the other hand: At the end of second 3:31 you get hit by his shots. And at the beginning of 3:32 you regain aim of him.
He's not much faster than you, but the whole situation looks very fast ... i think - i'm not sure about this myself

--- paused --- will continue later - will spellcheck later ---
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.09.12 18:52
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Zitat:

0:59 He is thrusting away instead of turning - thats an unusal manuver and i think thats the reason it looks so odd - but as you see a few seconds later it was a bad one.
He started turning again while you already had him in sight - and you kill him

In my opinion he just used that 'thruster burst' to much and he knew about that - thats why he didn't do anything - imo he wanted to lose interest. Look at the moment just before he disappeared from my screen. That acceleration was very very fast ( look on the flar which he lost and then how far he is from this distance ). It's a 'sabre/seth' bug effect ( when you stopped and use thruster you get very high acc - you see even a little 'lag' or 'jump' this is this same effect for me so in my opinion he :
1) Get his acceleration or/also speed bigger from thruster
2) Reduced weight of his ship ( more possible )
Second point will also explain how he was that fast in turnings.
Zitat:

~4:10-4:11 He's not really fast. He is close and doing a fly by thats why it looks that fast - you regain sight of him in 4:12 and he is not far away

Hmm maybe. But it looks strange. Look at the moment in 4:08/4:09 he is close and he use thruster instantly. He is a lot slower than in 4:10-4:12.

Video 2
0:38-0:40, 1:50-1:52 i must agree with you. That was strange cuz i didn't noticed that in some momment i was attacked by 2 of them.
Zitat:

3:30-3:33 It looks like really fast. But on the other hand: At the end of second 3:31 you get hit by his shots. And at the beginning of 3:32 you regain aim of him.
He's not much faster than you, but the whole situation looks very fast ... i think - i'm not sure about this myself

Look how many times he shot before i saw him. And remember that he must aim me too, so - i get first hit in 3:31 how you said. So he must saw me before this time. I think this is really too fast.
Look also at the degree of it's first hit. It's =/- 90 degrees of my ship ( so he could aim me in ~3:30 ). So this is impossible for me - his ship had a lot better mobility.

EDIT : Another thing - look at the moment when i started see him and back just when i lost him. Notice the trajectory of his ship. He did something like semicircle. I know maybe it isn't unnormal - but it's very hard to do in fight, with this speed and with this accuracy which he had. It's easy to do when you have 'strafe-thruster' -
http://www.vidup.de/v/eIaYU/
( I get video from here - http://freelancerserver.de/v2/ltopic,24868,0,asc,25.html )
When they could on/off this on-the-fly and when they set properly ( if they set it on only little effect - it's hard to saw it but we can see faster turnings etc ) it's almost impossible to recognize but imo this turn was did using this thing or similiar to this.
---- waiting ----
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 27.09.12 16:39
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So what about that analyze ? IMO ~10:35 is the most interesting moment and the most strange moment. We can see him all time when he use thruster = for me he had a lot bigger acc/speed than normal player.
I found another very odd moment :
11:39-11:41 - Imo normal thruster speed.
11:43~11:44 - A lot too fast, and strange 'jump'/'lag' effect ( as i said like in Sabre/Seth ship but imo even faster ).
11:53-11:54 again 'normal' thruster. It's really a lot big difference between 11:39-11:41/11:53-11:54 than 11:43-11:44 I know he is a bit closer but he have jump/lag effect and just AMAZING speed/acc. However before in 11:39-11:41 sec and 11:53-11:54 sec i can't see any jump/lag or another strange effect. Why sometimes we can see strange effects and sometimes everything is 100% normal ? For me answer is clear but i will wait for your ofc...
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.10.12 22:03
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Still no answer ?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 08.10.12 07:54
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Been busy the last weeks - and that will not stop before next monday
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 08.10.12 15:07
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K, no problem.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.10.12 22:44
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So in this week have you time ?
Sorry for my inpatient but i did this topic 3 weeks ago and still i didn't get answer for most of my questions. It's little disappointing.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 11:47
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Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
Video1:
0:59 He is thrusting away instead of turning - thats an unusal manuver and i think thats the reason it looks so odd - but as you see a few seconds later it was a bad one.
He started turning again while you already had him in sight - and you kill him

confirmed

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
~4:10-4:11 He's not really fast. He is close and doing a fly by thats why it looks that fast - you regain sight of him in 4:12 and he is not far away

confirmed

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
Video2:
0:38-0:40 At second 38 I can see a torp next to your ship - i guess its yours - at the end of second 38 it hits the enemy.
He looses his shield, a short time after you loose most of your hull. You were to close??
You loose your hull a bit after he looses his shield but I think thats normal.

confirmed, but it looks really a little bit strange.

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
1:50-1:52 That looked veryvery odd because you immidatly got shot by him after his fly by. But after trying to pause the moment directly before you die for 15 times i noticed that there are two Raubvogel Chars in the scene (one is written with i at the end the other with L).
The one who killed you is not the one you have targeted

wow, eagleeye^^ After your explanation I have to agree.

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
3:15-3:17 100m distance and flying to a point above you. Again. I think it looks that odd because he is so near.

Since I'm not so sure.

Nosferatu hat folgendes geschrieben:
3:30-3:33 It looks like really fast. But on the other hand: At the end of second 3:31 you get hit by his shots. And at the beginning of 3:32 you regain aim of him.
He's not much faster than you, but the whole situation looks very fast ... i think - i'm not sure about this myself

I also do not know how to evaluate that.

\^AMG^/ hat folgendes geschrieben:
10:35 another strange fast speed on thurster... To fast for me
10:39-10:41 NO COMMENT another shortwhile 'thruster burst'
11:54-11:56 Look, he use thruster and he doesn't flying with that speed like in some situations which i showed you. For me THIS is normal speed.
14:26-14:27 another for me little to fast thruster...

You could be right. I'll be watching Turmfalke and even fight him. I will then discuss with me the other admins. Please have a little more patience and sorry for my bad english.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 20:22
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Okay. We just finished another video looking session.

Conclusion: Most things seems to be legit, but that thruster speed is strange - but not strange enough for a ban.

We will monitor the issue

Thread has been moved back to public - open discussion allowed - but keep it civil


Zuletzt bearbeitet von Nosferatu am 17.10.12 06:38, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 21:42
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Zitat:
that thruster speed is strange - but not strange enough for a ban.

o.O Of course ! This is normal thing - if he use only a little thruster 'boost' he won't get ban because 'it's not enough'. So if we cheat a little we dont get ban, we can have it only when we cheat hard -.-
Wtf with you admins ? Think for a moment, they dont stupid, they wont do a lot change in game because it could be to easy to get proof on their cheats. If that speed is strange=this is not normal so how could he did that ?
Yea and move it to public forum now they will still using it and maybe you will catch them on cheating yea nice idea.
I don't want to jump to conclusions but this reaction is really strange.
A lot players ( I wont wrote it exactly who ) say that BB did very big donate for server is it true ? Are you defending him only because of money ? Sorry for that conclusion but i dont have another reason for your reaction. You don't know why his thruster speed was unnormal but still you 'believe' that they/he didn't cheated. For me proof on cheating/modding/bugging is that something isn't clear - that situations weren't clear and you know that ( you also wrote that ) so i asking again why they are not banned ? A lot of players get ban for cheats even without proofs or without normal reason ( for ex. Komar for "Network Traffic" - wtf is this ? All ppl dont know what is it and you banned him for this, so why you cant ban BB ? You don't know what they used too... ).

Another thing - I send this movies to Horatio in MAY ! 5 MONTHS AGO !!!
And what he said ?
Horatio hat folgendes geschrieben:

Sorry, cant see any cheats. Booth BB have a high level at skill.

I send you this same movies !!! ( if someone doesn't believe me i can do ss from that messages )
And now you say that was little strange thruster speed and you say that you will be watching him ? Yea nice reaction.


PS : ( to all ) Please write in this topic in english language. Thanks
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 22:43
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\^AMG^/ hat folgendes geschrieben:

A lot players ( I wont wrote it exactly who ) say that BB did very big donate for server is it true ? Are you defending him only because of money ? Sorry for that conclusion but i dont have another reason for your reaction.


I cant add anything to what the admins have already said about the videos other than I agree with them

What I really take issue with is your accusation about money, do you really believe this?

What evidence do you have to even bring this up?

Would be really poor if you are just guessing and calling the admins integrity into question without some hard facts

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 22:51
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@Tedi
I said that mostly this is rumors - i'm just disappointed and i'm looking for a reason of them reaction.
Are you really believe in 100% what admins says ? Why 5 months ago my movies was 100% clear and now they found some odd issues isn't it strange ?

@eXtincy
Really strange thing, this is unnormal too o.O
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 22:58
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\^AMG^/ hat folgendes geschrieben:
@Tedi
I said that mostly this is rumors - i'm just disappointed and i'm looking for a reason of them reaction.
Are you really believe in 100% what admins says ? Why 5 months ago my movies was 100% clear and now they found some odd issues isn't it strange ?

@eXtincy
o.O


Rumors?

I am dissapointed in you, surely you are not going to build a case built on rumors? especially when it calls the admins integrity into question, how would you feel if you were in their position, they do this job for nothing

It kinda makes the rest of your argument seem weak and deflects from it, would have been better if you had not mentioned it

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 16.10.12 23:05
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@Tedi
Omg i just wrote what i heared i dont care is it true or not. I asked them - i didn't wrote that i believe in this.

Btw Rumors=/=video so don't say anything about 'making my arguments weaks' cuz this is another thing. I asked them - if they won't answer = I can think about what i want. If they answer - i will respect this. I didn't want to hurt anybody. Just want to know the truth.

Btw why do you concentrate about offtopic ? Topic is about Turmi not about rumors ( ofc i want answer but it's not main problem of this topic ), so stop it ok?
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Verfasst am: 16.10.12 23:29
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@AMG

I am not defending or accusing Turmi, I dont fight him 1v1 so all I can go on is the videos, I agree with the admins assesment

It was the accusations about the money which annoyed me, however you just agreed with me, the money is completely unrelated, unfounded and off topic, you should retract your accusation with regards to it

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Verfasst am: 17.10.12 00:55
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So AMG, what you think would happen with the server if people stop donating? Tell me, what will happen? Oh yea, the server will shut down. I´m donating to this server because this game is fun for me. I´m playing this game since the release - maybe explains my skill? - and its the best game i´ve ever played.
I already offered anyone to film while i´m PvPing you. You will not see any cheats there.

I never cheated in Freelancer, i am not cheating and i will never cheat.

Greetz.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 17.10.12 05:35
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Zitat:
A lot players ( I wont wrote it exactly who ) say that BB did very big donate for server is it true ?

It's one of the basics rules on this server that no one gets special rights only because he donates.
And thats why Niwo doesn't show us the donation list and also no one in the team ever asked to get a look at it.
And to counter the next question: No - Niwo is not involved in ban discussions

@Turmfalke
Has [BB]Raubvogei said anything about the Videos yet?
Because i never know for sure on whom I'm looking at in which scene
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Verfasst am: 17.10.12 06:12
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Inay who is bb-raubvogei doesnt play These days. I think This pvp was One of the Last times he played fl due to rl issues. Maybe he'll find some time to post something here

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Verfasst am: 17.10.12 08:58
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Nosfi, what does you expect of me? To write books like bibel or koran to refute this thread? I have no time to do this.

But for you guys an example:

Zitat:
Zitat:
0:59 He is thrusting away instead of turning - thats an unusal manuver and i think thats the reason it looks so odd - but as you see a few seconds later it was a bad one.
He started turning again while you already had him in sight - and you kill him

In my opinion he just used that 'thruster burst' to much and he knew about that - thats why he didn't do anything - imo he wanted to lose interest. Look at the moment just before he disappeared from my screen. That acceleration was very very fast ( look on the flar which he lost and then how far he is from this distance ). It's a 'sabre/seth' bug effect ( when you stopped and use thruster you get very high acc - you see even a little 'lag' or 'jump' this is this same effect for me so in my opinion he :
1) Get his acceleration or/also speed bigger from thruster
2) Reduced weight of his ship ( more possible )
Second point will also explain how he was that fast in turnings.


In this case you are hunting turm, but thats me. It was a good manuver since it started to lag.
I think you can comprehend that my connection over all the years cause of WLAN not the best was.
Thats the problem, you cant exactly differentiate which raub who is.

Both turm and me are quite good in aiming. It is kind of tactic of us to combinate guns power to rush one enemy down as fast as possible
and this is the point to let pvp against us looks strange. We thank Teamspeak for his devine tool the only tool we use.

And its true, BB spend a lot of money for the server, especially me. I found 120€ on an old paypal acc i never missed.
Why should I spend 120€ on cigarettes or what else if never missed it? So I donate it to niwo to keep this server up.
I`m playing this game since 2006, so its the first time in 6 years i did something good for the server.
And it was time to do something good.

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