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F7
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Beitrag Titel: Corleone
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 08:09
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

"Hello there.
The~Paranoia strikes again.. and today we have an aimbot user. Marvellous.

We had our eyes on Corleone for a rather long time. ~ 1 year ago (before Asuka and before even Viper's incident) he cheated turnspeed on sabre, but it was a new thing for us back then and we didn't film it. After that he was rather inactive and we didn't have the chance to prove anything.

Yesterday he came to Alpha with the rest of STE. That evening we seen some rather disturbing gunnery from him. It was like he had a perfect aim from every maneuver, no matter how his target was moving. We found that rather suspicious for a player who's rarely online, not known for being a top gunner, and was cheating at least once in the past. So we had Burst switch to Drake, the ultimate aimbot detector.

First video.
This is what Burst filmed yesterday. Its short and it was the only time he could get a clean shot at Corle, as it was a rather overwhelming gank at their side. But these first 10 seconds are pretty much everything we need here. He aims way too good for any living person, perfectly following Drake with guns.
Now that I think of it, first time we suspected his sabre at fast turning, he was aiming way too good aswell. That was probably his test of different cheats.

Second video.
Same, but slowed down by 50%. Clear as day that his guns ALWAYS aim at Drake, no matter how hard Drake is going evasive, no matter the distance. This is by all means impossible for any living person to do. Drake is too fast and agile on turns, target cross is jumping on screen like crazy. Only aimbot, or something that makes crosshair way bigger than in normal FL, can do something like that.

Third video.
Yes, there is more. Today we made a test to be 100% sure that we are not mistaken. We took 2 very good gunners (Me and Burst) and made 2 videos with similar situation: from Drake's perspective, and from Eagle's perspective. This one shows how I try to gun Burst, who is going evasive. From his point of view its clearly seen how 90% of shots miss not only because of that Drake is evading them in real time, but because Eagle can't track the target cross with crosshair.

And the last video.
We switched. This time its me in Drake (sorry for char sharing, had to do it once as I don't have a Drake.. in fact, was my first time flying one), and Burst in Eagle. Now look at how target cross behaves when you try to hit Drake at this distance. It's impossible to track 100% of the time, no matter how good your aim is.. and Burst is one hell of a gunner.


That brings us to conclusion. Corleone is using aimbot, or something else that makes it possible for him to have 100% aim. Drake aside, he gunned our eagles like they were standing still, and believe me when I say we didn't. We're far from being noobs who are easy to kill.
He's using this shit in the open, on top of that he's flaming every time he kills someone with it, looking down on everyone." - Posted: 07.06.11 19:22

That was the original post in Admin Contact. We had no answer for a week, so it's going public. It was not so hard to tell at least ~anything~ on this subject, but there was nothing. So here it comes - I edited just a bit and cut things, irrelevant to cheat itself. Enjoy.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 09:38
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

when I watch the 1st video and the 3rd I see no difference, you make nearly same damage ... when a drake comes close enough it is not so hard to give him damage even with only tizona ...

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 09:53
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Don't look at damage, look at how guns aim. In his case they are at the prediction cross ALL the time, even when Drake is evading. When I do this - I need 0.5-1.0 seconds to take its trail and gun. What he's doing is impossible for human, unless he can see one second ahead in the future. Confused

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 10:19
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Corleone plays a long time and is a quite good player, youre not the best in Freelancer lmao..
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 10:30
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Nine-Tailed-Fox hat folgendes geschrieben:
Corleone plays a long time and is a quite good player, youre not the best in Freelancer lmao..

Try making a point next time you post. "He is just better than you" posts will be ignored.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 10:42
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Nine-Tailed-Fox hat folgendes geschrieben:
Corleone plays a long time and is a quite good player, youre not the best in Freelancer lmao..


Zitat:
Top 10 Killers
(last kill/death within 30 days)


1 - ^Flex007^ Kills: 53198

2 - ^^|radarek.pl Kills: 35922

3 - Menace Kills: 27901

4 - The~Evil³² Kills: 23457

5 - [F-TI]~Krüger Kills: 21183

6 - The~Misery³³ Kills: 20715

7 - Tedi-MC Kills: 19883

8 - [USAF]_D4rkl1ght3r Kills: 18225

9 - FlexiusVII Kills: 17577

10 - (;Flex007;) Kills: 17288


Zitat:
Kill/Death Pvp Rankings - Top 100
(more than 50 kills and last kill/death within 14 days)
(Rating = KD-Ratio x Total Kills)

1 - ^Flex007^
Kills: 53198 Deaths: 33366 (NPC: 149 Suicide: 273 Selfkill: 5064) Rating: 84817.69
Last Kill/Death: 04.06.11 - 14:35


8 - [S.T.E.]-*Firestarter*
Kills: 14066 Deaths: 6379 (NPC: 50 Suicide: 15 Selfkill: 630) Rating: 31016.2
Last Kill/Death: 14.06.11 - 20:30

9 - FlexiusVII
Kills: 17577 Deaths: 10754 (NPC: 69 Suicide: 5 Selfkill: 1604) Rating: 28728.93
Last Kill/Death: 12.06.11 - 20:56


11 - (;Flex007;)
Kills: 17288 Deaths: 11462 (NPC: 35 Suicide: 111 Selfkill: 1851) Rating: 26075.29
Last Kill/Death: 15.06.11 - 09:47

12 - Flex007
Kills: 12175 Deaths: 6522 (NPC: 47 Suicide: 63 Selfkill: 978) Rating: 22727.79
Last Kill/Death: 01.06.11 - 23:09


Even if Flex may not be called the best fighter - he is one of the best fighters around. And please take a look where his chars are - Alpha, Gamma, Theta. Not New Berlin like Corleone's Top10-Char.

Sorry for breaking the c.o.b. rule but in my opinion this just had to be said to clarify that Flex is not a pvp-noob who thinks that someone cheats. Accusations from players with fairly high pvp-skills don't come out of nowhere.
I don't know if Corleone is/was cheating or not and I don't really care, I will neither defend nor indict him.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 10:55
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Its not a matter of skill. There are limits to human reaction speed, as simple as that. And with Drake you can't even predict his maneuver, as he's too small and agile. With Eagle - yes, you can, to some point. With Drake - nope, sorry.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:01
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

There is a clear distinction between the stalk of the first flight videos and videos of the third to take it just as cheap .. In the first video he faces Corle and in that time a rat is not particularly difficult to meet for a player like Corle ..

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:15
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Zitat:
In the first video he faces Corle and in that time a rat is not particularly difficult to meet for a player like Corle


Just look at the way the crosshair is moving fast when u're trying to aim on drake. When you check the first video, Corlé's guns follow exactly my moves, so, it follow exactly the crosshair on his screen. Following drake's crosshair like this is impossible for human. He even don't have hesitation in his aim, no gun go in another direction, like we can see on my video against Flex. Even when I push thruster, his guns follow untill I go out of his screen. Have u already tried to aim at drake?
Even if what I do and what flex do on drake can be a bit different (we can't reproduce exactly the same moves), it's impossible to follow drake like this.

And aiming on crosshair against Drake doesn't make such damage because the drake is very little, and can change direction very fastly. Crosshair doesn't read in the futur. Whereas Flex hit me with gun that maybe be was fired around me, which is the usual way to hit a drake. If you try to aim a drake, u just will have a headache. So the point we are showing here are not the damages, but the guns which are following me.

Just for info :

Drake :
Mass 100
Acceleration, m/s 308

Eagle :
Mass 150
Acceleration, m/s 229
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:26
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Ehm you know but even that burst in the video is a rat, not a Blood Dragon? or do you want me now sell a rat as a kite? :>

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von Alba_One am 15.06.11 11:33, insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:28
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

uh? Yes, it's a drake, not a blood dragon... Rolling Eyes
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:30
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Die Ratte heißt im englischen Freelancer "Drake". Also sprich BurstMox klar von der Ratte, nicht vom Blutdrachen.
The Drake in German Freelancer is called "Ratte" (rat). So BurstMox speaks clearly of the drake, not of the Blood Dragon! Wink

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:34
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Rhino hat folgendes geschrieben:
Die Ratte heißt im englischen Freelancer "Drake". Also sprich BurstMox klar von der Ratte, nicht vom Blutdrachen.
The Drake in German Freelancer is called "Ratte" (rat). So BurstMox speaks clearly of the drake, not of the Blood Dragon! Wink


thx fürs aufklären .. ^^

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:39
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

You're welcome. Smile
Better someone clarifies things than there will be (more) misunderstandings which will definitely lead this topic into pure flame.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 11:44
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Ah ok , thx for explaination. I thought Rat was just nickname of the Drake.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 12:08
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

I dont see anything in these videos, his aim is good but you can clearly see some of his shots missing

But then I didnt see anything in Sunny`s Videos either (yes I have seen them), Incorrect descision IMO but then thats a seperate issue and not connected

And BTW if admins dont answer I think you can take it that they dont see anything that they think is suspicious, we assumed this was the case when Darklighters ban thread was ignored

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 12:43
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Zitat:
And BTW if admins dont answer I think you can take it that they dont see anything that they think is suspicious


Admins didn't answered about Asuka, and others who got banned and recognized as cheater. So, that mean nothing.



Zitat:
I dont see anything in these videos, his aim is good but you can clearly see some of his shots missing


From 0:10 to 0:13, when I face to him, untill I go out of his screen, his guns follow me , like if I was gun magnet. Against eagle, we say ok, against Drake, it's not possible, the crosshair is too fast to exactly follow it with your mouse. If, by missing, u mean not make damage, yes. But again, it's not what we are talking about here. I already explained why.
Crosshair is even not smooth with drake. Maybe u want to test it? Next time u see me, u can ask to fight against my Drake.

Zitat:
But then I didnt see anything in Sunny`s Videos either (yes I have seen them), Incorrect descision IMO but then thats a seperate issue and not connected


Well, that's not our problem, when I posted about Asuka, u shouted that he was totaly clean too...
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 12:53
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Let me ask some things... maybe I do not get it right

1. Corle uses a Sabre, with that ship he has a turret that shot to the front- I think we all know that...
Flex uses an Eagle with no front turret

Sitting front to front to a skilled Sabre pilot is hard to win

--> First possible solution why Corle inflicts more damage

2. Corle uses a good macro and he confirmed it several times

You can clearly see the single shots of each weapon. There is a constant "stream" of fire on the target. So there is a higher posiiblility that you hit your opponent.
Flex' or Mox' gunfire looks different... A bad macro? Simply weapon groups? Or nothing at all? Who knows?

--> Second possible solution why Corle inflicts more damage

Edit:

With an aimbot he really should hit you all the time, right? A full front to front flight with a Sabrepilot who uses an aimbot and you are still living after that? In a drake?

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von Bulldozer am 15.06.11 13:00, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 12:59
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Zitat:
1. Corle uses a Sabre, with that ship he has a turret that shot to the front- I think we all know that...
Flex uses an Eagle with no front turret

Sitting front to front to a skilled Sabre pilot is hard to win


Additionnal turret just give additionnal damage, not a better aim, and that doesn't make crosshair easier to follow.



Zitat:
2. Corle uses a good macro and he confirmed it several times

You can clearly see the single shots of each weapon. There is a constant "stream" of fire on the target. So there is a higher posiiblility that you hit your opponent.
Flex' or Mox' gunfire looks different... A bad macro? Simply weapon groups? Or nothing at all? Who knows?


Same thing, yes, I don't use macro, and I think flex too, but no, macro doesn't help to follow the crosshair. That can give a signifiant help in giving more damage, because guns have better chance to hit "accidentaly", because flow of gun is more dense. Nothing more. So, yes, Corlé use good macro, we can see his flow of gun, but no, that doesn't explain why his guns are FOLLOWING me in that way.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 13:10
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

[OEG]BurstMox hat folgendes geschrieben:
Zitat:
1. Corle uses a Sabre, with that ship he has a turret that shot to the front- I think we all know that...
Flex uses an Eagle with no front turret

Sitting front to front to a skilled Sabre pilot is hard to win


Additionnal turret just give additionnal damage, not a better aim, and that doesn't make crosshair easier to follow.

Turrets make following the crosshair harder. If you use Nomad-Weapons and Tizona del Cid they will fly 600m/s - the turrets shoot with a speed of 750m/s like Kraken Mk II or Skyblast B. So your crosshair won't be easier to steer, it even gets harder.
(I hope my point is clarified good enough. :/ )

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 13:18
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

The faster the gun is, the "easier" the crosshair will be to follow, because crosshair is calculated with average speed of guns config. If you have full skyblast config, the crosshair will be closer to the ship than if u use full Firekiss. But this different is little.

Exemple :

Zitat:

1 config (sabre) :
Hornviper turret 800m/s (yes, the fastest, as Firekiss is 500m/s, the slowest)
skyblast 750m/s
kraken 700m/s
Diamondback 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
(800+750+700+600+600+600+600)/7 = 664

Another config
tiz 600m/s
kraken 700m/s
nomad 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
nomad 600m/s
Turret doesn't interfer in face to face on eagle
(600+700+600+600+600+600)/6 = 616



In Corléone's case, his average speed is low, he use only nomis, tiz and kraken (as far as I can see on video). So, nothing with his gun can help to aim. And even if he had full skyblst, that could not explain this, because it's a drake, and again, this difference with crosshair when using fast gun is little.

Kraken turret, skyblast turret and salamanca turret are only 700m/s. Speed are different between turret and guns, usualy.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 15.06.11 13:25
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

Bulldozer hat folgendes geschrieben:
With an aimbot he really should hit you all the time, right?


Wrong! Mostly but not always - aimbot can't predict your future moves - it just stick to your crosshair. Remember there is latency between moment you fire and moment the projectile hits the enemy. If in the meantime he will change direction the projectile can hit the void . So the greater distance is between the ships the better chances you have to avoid hitting when you change your direction.

Well at least it's my understanding of FL-physic.
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Verfasst am: 15.06.11 13:52
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I would temp-ban him for flaming and then if he doesn't stop, perma-ban him. Problem solved.

Imho 'skilled' players with the urge to bully others are a nuisance nobody needs.
Really skilled players shouldn't be in dire need of pushing their ego by such behaviour.
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Verfasst am: 15.06.11 14:31
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Bulldozer hat folgendes geschrieben:
With an aimbot he really should hit you all the time, right? A full front to front flight with a Sabrepilot who uses an aimbot and you are still living after that? In a drake?

Wrong. Just like Rada said, perfect aim does not equal perfect hit, even if you aim at eagle. And this is even more true to Drake, as ship is very small and agile.

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von F7 am 15.06.11 14:32, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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doublepost

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