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[TCEagles]crashbx
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Beitrag Titel: hyperspace
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 20:37
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I got idea about hyperspace in fl

anyway we all know how important it is to be in short time @ certain place to join combat or help your clan fellows, so i was thinking how we could shorten this up.

We all know hyperspace isnt actually part of freelancer but it is kinda part of flhook or how would i say admin function to jump between systems, after that i was thinking ok how to avoid abuse of this jumps, so traders wont use jumps to quickly sell cargo between 2 far away distances and i come to an idea we could use something like you need fuel to be able to jump between systems, let me give an example


Eagle ship 70 cargo space, so fighter needs to buy 70 HFUEL in order his jumping command would work and for each jump whole cargo of HFUEL is depleted for 1 jump, that means if cargo ship have maximum cargo load 400, it will need 400 FUEL for jump to be executed successfully, so for each jump ppl would need to buy full cargo of fuel to be able to jump.

Big ship with big cargo = more fuel needed to jump, this way we avoid hyperspace trade abuse.

Additional things i was thinking that while ship execute jump mode it generates kinda jumphole effect for the player and hyperspace can drop target on random locations in the system, similar to the old bug that was in past used by some bug users when you pressed f1 in jumping sequence it droped you out in random position in system u were jumping.

So what u think is that possible to implement ?

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 21:36
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I already hear all those ppl crying, who have build up chars in every system all over sirius.

1. Awesome abuse possibility for bountyhunts. For both hunted and hunters. I'm gonna love it =)
2. Do a Farway, return to Tripoli, load H-Fuel, use hyperdrive to get back to NY, start the next Farway. Voilá, your very own cashing machinery.
Same procedure this for any other lucrative one way trade route. E.g. gate/lane parts from Roppongi to Chugoku-Gate-Site. Wonderful =)
3. Random location in a system would be useless, imagine spawning in south Kyushu e.g.

btw, that "bug" is still active, and it ain't a random location within the system, it's in a direct line from the gate/hole you jump through into the system. Go to the Cambridge gate in Omega 3 and ask a friend to jump into Omega 3 from Omega 7. You'll see his name for a second on your radar.

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Taggart
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 21:44
Antworten mit ZitatNach oben

pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:

2. Do a Farway, return to Tripoli, load H-Fuel, use hyperdrive to get back to NY, start the next Farway. Voilá, your very own cashing machinery.
Same procedure this for any other lucrative one way trade route. E.g. gate/lane parts from Roppongi to Chugoku-Gate-Site. Wonderful =)


Not so very different from the way it's done nowadays (two trader ships - transfering the cargo at destination B [trade route end] and blowing the empty transport to pieces - restarting at destination A [trade route start] - et violá, the cashing machinery is working).

But I'm against hyperspace on HHC.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 21:45
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I agree with all points ghosty stated. also I don't see any use for it. but wait for FW2 there you will have this function,

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 21:58
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Taggart hat folgendes geschrieben:


Not so very different from the way it's done nowadays (two trader ships - transfering the cargo at destination B [trade route end] and blowing the empty transport to pieces - restarting at destination A [trade route start] - et violá, the cashing machinery is working).



Nowadays?^^ I know this "trick" for at least 2 years and in order to that its a simple trick many others know it even longer

@ Topic
ghost said everything ... its is sadly to simple to abuse Confused

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.07.10 22:27
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Bulldozer hat folgendes geschrieben:

Nowadays?^^ I know this "trick" for at least 2 years and in order to that its a simple trick many others know it even longer


"Nowadays" was corresponding to the "future of HHC with hyperspace".
It shouldn't exclude the past.
And I'm pretty aware of the fact, that this trick is well known for the last years (in my opinion it is exploiting - nearly bugusing/cheating... but that's another story Mr. Green ).
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.07.10 22:53
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Cool thx for your point of view guys but u missed the point kinda

pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
I already hear all those ppl crying, who have build up chars in every system all over sirius.

1. Awesome abuse possibility for bountyhunts. For both hunted and hunters. I'm gonna love it =)


Thats why i said random place in system its a hyperspace and we all know hyperspace isnt excatly pinpoint all the time or so we can say its fast but not accurate

pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:

2. Do a Farway, return to Tripoli, load H-Fuel, use hyperdrive to get back to NY, start the next Farway. Voilá, your very own cashing machinery.
Same procedure this for any other lucrative one way trade route. E.g. gate/lane parts from Roppongi to Chugoku-Gate-Site. Wonderful =)

That is allready working without this special addition to the game with 2 chars, so this point we cant count since where is the problem now they can do that for free without even buying fuel and flying to tripoli Very Happy after hyper space they would have to first fly there buy fuel and etc so i dont see that as abuse since they have to pay for hyperspace in anyway... and they cant hyperspace from ny to farway since they need to buy fuel again.. so they cant do farway mission.


pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:

3. Random location in a system would be useless, imagine spawning in south Kyushu e.g.

In the first point i said i explained why is that good since this way u cant abuse bountyhunts and beside that ppl are allready doing similar stuff with 100 ids and chars docked on every single base so again no point in abusing hyperspace cause other methods are cheaper...

Thx for your points so we can clarify them and together find possible abusive behavior, i dont want abuses also so i am happy beside to point hey it will be abuse i try to find problem and counter it.
@ Aphex and Buldozzer u didnt even care reading all points so put some more effort before saying u dont see any use in that, i see loads of use like:

ppl wont have to create 10 ids with different chars to switch between systems which we all know its not good for the server, instead of people could use this more in rpg view.

So if u dont see any use in that please be so kind and explain us possible abuse of this function so we could try find an encounter of it.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.07.10 23:17
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I think its possible to make webmissions or bountyhunt be cancelled if the one making it jumps via hyper. There is also possibility that VIPs cannot survive such conditions and die aka vanish - only pilot cabin is geard for human to survive hyperspace jumps.

Also, there is always possibility that you will jump into sun. Funny feature if it can and will be implemented.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.07.10 23:26
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I find it a great plan. I don't want loads of chars, I cant organise those anyway.
But, it can be that I understood it wrong, but lets say it like this:

first point: Very simple solution when you are in bountyhunt: hyperspace disabled. Like cruise engine is when you are cloaked

Second point: I'm a happy trader, flying a Train. One day I decide to jump from New London to Omicron Theta. So I go to the nearest station, buy a cargohold full (450) of H-Fuel and my hyperspace journey can begin.
In no time at all I'm in Theta, now that was great! BUT I couldn't take any cargo with me because my cargohold had to be full (450) of H-Fuel. So I end up in Theta with 0 H-fuel and no other cargo to sell.

Third point: Why is a random location so bad? As long as it isn't in a suns radius, I don't mind.

Now, would anyone care to explain me how:
1. Bountyhunters can abuse this hyperspace with the solution hyperspace disabled
2. Traders can abuse this thing if they can't carry anything with them except the H-Fuel, wich is used after one hyperspace journey.
3. Why a random place is so bad?

Thank you very much, good night.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 00:22
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1. That'd be unfair against the hunted. Hunters still can use hyperspace and his helpers, too. Not very balanced if everyone but the hunted jumps 2 systems further.
2. One way routes, don't you read? E.g. Xeno Organisms from FP9 to Cambridge, return via hyperspace, next run. And that something is already practised doesn't mean, we should enable it for everyone.
3. A random place disables cashbox' argumentation
cashbox hat folgendes geschrieben:
anyway we all know how important it is to be in short time @ certain place to join combat or help your clan fellows, so i was thinking how we could shorten this up

Again, the Kyushu example: You want to help your mates at the planet, but you spawn somewhere around E8. Now you have to fly about 100 to 150k to engage in a fight, that in most cases is over, before you reach the combat scene. Kinda useless, isn't it?

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 00:51
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pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
1. That'd be unfair against the hunted. Hunters still can use hyperspace and his helpers, too. Not very balanced if everyone but the hunted jumps 2 systems further.
2. One way routes, don't you read? E.g. Xeno Organisms from FP9 to Cambridge, return via hyperspace, next run. And that something is already practised doesn't mean, we should enable it for everyone.
3. A random place disables cashbox' argumentation
cashbox hat folgendes geschrieben:
anyway we all know how important it is to be in short time @ certain place to join combat or help your clan fellows, so i was thinking how we could shorten this up

Again, the Kyushu example: You want to help your mates at the planet, but you spawn somewhere around E8. Now you have to fly about 100 to 150k to engage in a fight, that in most cases is over, before you reach the combat scene. Kinda useless, isn't it?


Again you dont understand One way routes are used by anyone on server above IQ 50 lol and still where is the problem in ONE way route ? Some ppl like to fly back and forward to sell cargo 2 ways and some dont,those who dont want they can simply jump back to 1 way for certain price i dont see any abuse here ! so dont apply this is abuse its same as i would say tradelanes are abuse cause u flying faster than 300 Razz because in omicrons some traders cant use them....

Well if i am in theta fp 9 and have to fly to kyushu its still less time than jump and fly 300k if u want it lol, i find it more fun and quicker way to support your m8s than fly from dozens of systems to reach them... Beside who will force you to hyperspace if u find it useless u can still traver old ways and try to catch the jumpers

Consider hyperspace as switching between chars, if u say thats abuse than we all abuse the server 24/7 Very Happy so find some new possibilty how this could be abused.

There was 1 interisting concept should bountyhunt players be able to jump or no, well i would say yes since yea they can jump in final system but we all know they cant stay there forever so if system time limit reaches its limit gameover, or if they dock as soon they started BH mission they gained litterlay nothing with it :)cause BH increases with time

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 01:36
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pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
1. That'd be unfair against the hunted. Hunters still can use hyperspace and his helpers, too. Not very balanced if everyone but the hunted jumps 2 systems further.
2. One way routes, don't you read? E.g. Xeno Organisms from FP9 to Cambridge, return via hyperspace, next run. And that something is already practised doesn't mean, we should enable it for everyone.
3. A random place disables cashbox' argumentation
cashbox hat folgendes geschrieben:
anyway we all know how important it is to be in short time @ certain place to join combat or help your clan fellows, so i was thinking how we could shorten this up

Again, the Kyushu example: You want to help your mates at the planet, but you spawn somewhere around E8. Now you have to fly about 100 to 150k to engage in a fight, that in most cases is over, before you reach the combat scene. Kinda useless, isn't it?

1)If you think its unfair, what about char switching during the hunt? I joined it a few times myself and it just takes a few keys of smurfs to be at any system hunted can go.
2)One way routes are being abused with 2 chars without any hyperspace. Undocking with second char at destination, transferring cargo, selfkill. Btw, xeno organisms route is actually 2-way with luxury food to the luxury liner in S-19.
3)Fight that ends while you are flying a bit is not worth jumping anyway. Also, most systems are pretty safe to hyper deviation with tradelanes and stuff. You fly a bit, then you just dock and that's ok. Thou I insist that chance of jumping into the sun must be left, its more fun this way.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 08:09
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1. I don't like intensive switching. In my opinion it should be abbandoned because it's just lame.
And about the BH: The hunted just has to start the BH in a system, he knows, he'll have to run somewhere, where he has multiple dock options, e.g. New Berlin. Then he goes/hyperjumps to NY, idles all the time near a gate or hole, jumps through and back every 15 minutes to prevent space idling kick. 20 minutes before the end of the BH, the hunted goes somewhere, he can buy H-Fuel, takes a load and then initiates the hyperjump to his target system. And when you disable hyperjumps for the hunted, still everyone else can do it. In my opinion a new level of laming.
2. Just because some players lame around with 2 chars and it is not forbidden, you can not transfer it into a server feature. Got it?
And the FP9-Camb-Sig19 example is not good. Flying to Sig 19 and back from Theta takes you about the same time you need to fly once from FP9 to Cambridge. Twice the cash in thrice the time compared to the FP9-Camb run with return via hyperspace.
3. So hyper jumping prevents players from building up new chars. Great, even more noobs running around. And you can't tell me, that you have only one ID. Three IDs should every elder player have equipped, and with three IDs you can cover enough of Sirius, to reach every system in an acceptable small amount of time. And again the hyperspace got useless.

Btw, what about equipping new chars? Will be as easy as stealing cashbox' lollipop. Starflier in NY loads H-Fuel, hyperjump to Theta, buys eagle, loads H-Fuel, jumps to depot system, equips, loads H-Fuel and jumps to his final destination. Great, I want my time back I used to equip my chars. 2 million for each "wasted" hour, to be sent to "ghostbuster_no2", ty.

Next point: Weapon transfer will be as easy as anything now. Load weapons, load H-Fuel, hyperjump to NY, no worries, all profit.
Unfortunately the community refused such a system earlier (char manager based via depots).

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 10:14
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noobitrader hat folgendes geschrieben:
Third point: Why is a random location so bad? As long as it isn't in a suns radius, I don't mind.


You do realize that "random" in space could mean 1000 k from nearest station ?


edit: Also you might as well remove the Jump Gates if you implement it, because that was their role: To put you in hyperspace so you can reach the next system faster.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 10:46
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Dudes you're losing the point. As crash said, you don't need to use it. And only vanilla traders fly one way routes. And indeed, the char switching thing is a bit like this, but hyperspace makes it feel a lot more like freelancer, I think. And another thing pommes, why are you complaining about this so much?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 11:18
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noobitrader hat folgendes geschrieben:
And only vanilla traders fly one way routes.


That's nonsense ... in vanilla FL, the majority of the traders used two way trade routes, but with dynamic economy a lot of one way routes became more profitable since the players were used to their old two way routes and made them less profitable so the one way routes became even more interesting.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 14:06
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crashbx hat folgendes geschrieben:
So if u dont see any use in that please be so kind and explain us possible abuse of this function so we could try find an encounter of it.


When I don't see any use in it why should I tell you how we could avoid abuse? You need to tell us why we should think about an implementation of this feature ... and until now you only stated arguments that fit for YOU or YOUR clan....
Anyway Hyper-jump is useless. Fly the 3 system if needed or create a new char ... if you are to lazzy stay in the System you are. It is that simple.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 14:10
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APHEX, if the only thing you can do is pulling down someones ideas, please refrain from posting here. With all the respect, but you think it is useless because you pirates can't tax traders so easy anymore. I think this is a great oportunity for you to think of something how you could avoid people from going into hyperspace. Have fun, and post something fundamental so that we can use that, thanks very much.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 16:14
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Oh, all arguments are wasted, now let's get personal - or what? Calm down noob.

Since my RPG is almost the whole opposite of Aphex way to play, so your accusation of him being against hypergates because of uncatchable trades is just nonsense.
And I am argumenting against - not complaining about - this topic because I don't like the idea, there are to many possibilities of abuse, it would "legalize" the - in my opinion - lame behaviour of running down trade routes with 2 ships and it would mollycoddle (awesome word XD) new players even more.

As Aphex said: Give US some arguments, why we should support this idea. And not only repeat the arguments, that make this idea interesting for YOU. ty

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 17:09
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That thing makes taxing completely impossible and destroys trading.
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 17:49
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noobitrader hat folgendes geschrieben:
APHEX, if the only thing you can do is pulling down someones ideas, please refrain from posting here. With all the respect, but you think it is useless because you pirates can't tax traders so easy anymore. I think this is a great oportunity for you to think of something how you could avoid people from going into hyperspace. Have fun, and post something fundamental so that we can use that, thanks very much.


just lol

if you would read the thread you will find out that traders schould not be able to use hyperjump ...

when this will be implemented you will see traders using it on on way routes (or better to say overuse it)

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.07.10 23:35
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pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
1. I don't like intensive switching. In my opinion it should be abbandoned because it's just lame.
And about the BH: The hunted just has to start the BH in a system, he knows, he'll have to run somewhere, where he has multiple dock options, e.g. New Berlin. Then he goes/hyperjumps to NY, idles all the time near a gate or hole, jumps through and back every 15 minutes to prevent space idling kick. 20 minutes before the end of the BH, the hunted goes somewhere, he can buy H-Fuel, takes a load and then initiates the hyperjump to his target system. And when you disable hyperjumps for the hunted, still everyone else can do it. In my opinion a new level of laming.
2. Just because some players lame around with 2 chars and it is not forbidden, you can not transfer it into a server feature. Got it?
And the FP9-Camb-Sig19 example is not good. Flying to Sig 19 and back from Theta takes you about the same time you need to fly once from FP9 to Cambridge. Twice the cash in thrice the time compared to the FP9-Camb run with return via hyperspace.
3. So hyper jumping prevents players from building up new chars. Great, even more noobs running around. And you can't tell me, that you have only one ID. Three IDs should every elder player have equipped, and with three IDs you can cover enough of Sirius, to reach every system in an acceptable small amount of time. And again the hyperspace got useless.

Btw, what about equipping new chars? Will be as easy as stealing cashbox' lollipop. Starflier in NY loads H-Fuel, hyperjump to Theta, buys eagle, loads H-Fuel, jumps to depot system, equips, loads H-Fuel and jumps to his final destination. Great, I want my time back I used to equip my chars. 2 million for each "wasted" hour, to be sent to "ghostbuster_no2", ty.

Next point: Weapon transfer will be as easy as anything now. Load weapons, load H-Fuel, hyperjump to NY, no worries, all profit.
Unfortunately the community refused such a system earlier (char manager based via depots).


1. i dont like switching also but we all do it
simple you disable jumping in new york or out of new york or simply in bountyhunt cant use hyperspace function so your abuse behavior is avoided.
2. Lol this point made no sense, i dont know why u find everything in freelancer lame but i am sure u use same lame stuff does that mean you are lame ? If you will say no i dont use multiple chars you are simply lieing to yourself
3. Well again problem can be simply solved that char which is not older than 1 week and lowest cargo must be 70 so noob ship cant abuse it...
4.Who are u referring as cashbox ? If you calling me cashbox i recommend you write down 100 times crashbx until u get used to it thx... or even one more parameter u cant use hyperspace if you dont have equipment above level 7 or something on your char...

Its good that you are thinking of problems, but i also see that u are lazy to think how to make solutions for the problems so you mind gets blocked after bunch of problems u come up, we should think out of the box and come up with new ideas and not just negative stuff which would hold down innovations i thx god that some ppl who play freelancer are thinking out of the box otherwise freelancer would get long time ago buried under forgotten games...

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Verfasst am: 24.07.10 02:13
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YOU are cashbox. Mr. "gimme money or we'll declare war at you".

back to topic:
I'm still missing the arguments, why this feature should be attractive for anyone but you.

Only one thing left to answer: Your idea lacks usability, abuse-savety and attraction for anyone but you. Why do you put more and more fixes in it, instead of saying: Ok, this idea has not been really thought over?!
Let's put it back and think about it again.

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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.07.10 11:29
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pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
Oh, all arguments are wasted, now let's get personal - or what? Calm down noob.



and

pommes feat. apocalypse hat folgendes geschrieben:
YOU are cashbox. Mr. "gimme money or we'll declare war at you".



Maybe you should first look at your own behaviour?
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Beitrag Titel:
Verfasst am: 24.07.10 12:21
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Offtopic.
Close please
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